BlueyesinLevis: Many opinions have high value.... many don't.
Weatherford Tx.: Many have been right to date and many haven't. LOL.
TLAR: just a guy, t is my opinion that anyone who holds the currency will benefit.
I believe the nominal rate is what they will change first (delete the leading zeros) so whatever that turns out to be, that will be the value of the physical dinar. If the nominal rate is changed to one to one, the million dinars you hold will be worth 1 million US before the taxes are paid.
For those that hold accounts in Iraq, it is my belief that they will not lose or gain in value. Right or wrong that's my belief. I have said this for years now and I don't see it any other way but who knows.
TLAR Continues: I could be wrong but I don't think so. There is no article to back this up either way but logically I have come to my conclusion based on what is a balanced approach to this project.
Remember this has never been done this way before. If it comes to pass that we are accurate in our assumptions and that the program is activated as we have been told by the CBI and they delete the leading zeros off the NOMINAL RATE, there must be a balance. Mostly we have all come to our individual conclusions based on assumptions that we have derived from years of reading and following the news.
Everyone has been right. Everyone has been wrong. Anyone who has read my posts for the last couple of years knows I have been firm in my beliefs on this stance. Hold the currency, not stocks, not bank accounts, not anything but the physical dinar itself.
IMO when the currency goes up in value based on a change in the NOMINAL RATE, everything else will be adjusted to the new rate. Again what you and I believe may be different, but the CBI I'm sure wants a balanced approach. Making every bank account holder rich, business and personal and government accounts, was never the plan. tlar
Scott: WHO IS this Tiar? What are his/her qualifications?? WHAT PROOF does this person have???
Weatherford Tx.: Appreciate all the responses in this thread ..... and no offense ....... but just a couple of days ago you said .....
" I can't say more but I was wrong on the value. It is more than delete the zeros, or 86 cents. "
" I was a fool in trying to figure this out numerically. It is more than I thought. "
Too bad you can not elaborate. Might help explain the senario your are trying to lay out.
Thanks for all you feel like you can discuss though.
TLAR: Scott, no special qualifications. Just a retired avid reader trying to interpret this investment for my family and friends. I have already said this is my opinion.
The proof you look for does not exist for either side of this argument. We will not know exactly what they do until they do it.
This is what I have surmised they will do because logic tells me there must be parity on both sides of the balance statement. Choose to believe what you want. You won't hurt my feelings I assure you.
By the way this is not the first time I have debated this topic, but I am hoping it is close to being the last.
Soon I think all these sides to this argument will be known. Some happy, some not. I for one have specifically late in 2008 harped on not having accounts, just currency to my email list. My thoughts are no matter whether you believe this or not, why take a chance? tlar
Dwsdad: You people do realize that our dollar changes value almost everyday? It's our buying power that changes, not the actual value of the money in our pockets.
It's not until visit a foreign country that you really realize what the dollar is worth. The same thing will apply in Iraq. It's their buying power they will realize.
Dinar will be dinar until you exchange the dinar for some other currency and unless Iraqis are leaving the country, they will never the true value of their dinar. A car that might have cost them 500,000 dinar may only cost them 500 dinar after the rv. At least that's my point of view.
TLAR: Phillyman, To the average Iraqi, Iraq is still a cash society. Almost everybody uses cash every day. The CBI has been in the process of trying to change that.
The CBI has stated as one of their goals for this project is to get the people using the banks again by setting up new accounts and at the same time raising the capital of those banks.
Shabibi had asked all banks to take your time with each customer once we delete the zeros, and set up accounts and offer a menu of banking services. In a lop this request of the banks would be out of place.
A lop is a neutral event and there is no appreciation of the currency. Mostly countries that have lopped have had their currencies deteriorate for at least a while due to the lack of confidence.
Lops are really a negative event. It is only if you see a drastic increase in the value of a currency that Iraqi's would be opening bank accounts for safety as opposed to carrying alot of cash around.
Saddam wiped out the banks on his way out including the central bank. People lost their fortunes and life savings, and have yet to have enough confidence in the system to return.
Plus the average Iraqi has very little money to open any kind of account at present. Iraqi's are slowly coming back to banking but this project should bring them in in droves.
At least that was what Shabibi envisioned and had stated as one of the goals of this project. That alone lends credence to an RV of some sort, not a lop. Tlar
Weatherford Tx.: Too funny. Knew it wouldn't be long before someone was throwing the lopster accusations. If anyone is the lopster it's the ones who believe Tlar's senario. Tlar's senario about what will happen within the Iraqi banking system describes a lop/redenomination ! Period.
I DO NOT believe it will happen that way. If I am wrong and Tlar is right about a lop/redenomination within the Iraqi banking system IMO it will apply to EVERYONE.
TLAR: Weatherford, if I didn't like you so much I might take this seriously. But alas, you are a bright star in an otherwise dark sky. I think you play a part in this that is all by itself, and I enjoy it when you taunt everyone. You bring out the best in all of us.
You make me in particular realize that this is fun and to not take one self so seriously. Nothing we think or say will speed up or slow down this investment. We are all just playing at second guessers. I think you only critize people you like just to get a rise out of them. I always feel honored to be a target in your sites. tlar
just a guy : You ARE alot more negative than I am Weatherford. You really believe Malarky will remain PM?
Weatherford Tx.: just a guy, Sorry just read back through and saw the question. Absolutely ! There are entirely too many senarios where he remains. Everyone is sitting around waiting for the votes to be counted and think just as soon as they announce them he is gone right that very second. C'mon man ! LOL. Even if he were to lose the vote he will still have all the time he needs to manipulate and develop a new senario where he remains. Maliki ain't going anywhere
Dwsdad wrote at May 8, 2014 at 9:02 PM “You people do realize that our dollar changes value almost everyday? It's our buying power that changes, not the actual value of the money in our pockets. It's not until visit a foreign country that you really realize what the dollar is worth. The same thing will apply in Iraq. It's their buying power they will realize. Dinar will be dinar until you exchange the dinar for some other currency and unless Iraqis are leaving the country, they will never the true value of their dinar. A car that might have cost them 500,000 dinar may only cost them 500 dinar after the rv. At least that's my point of view.”
BlueyesinLevis: Exactly.. the values of say.. the car.... will remain what it was in USD.
Tlar has explained over and over exactly what he meant... he is NOT describing a LOP.. he is describing a situation where the bank account itself is determined to be like any other contract...
and once the Law of Indebtedness is enacted... the value of items is to be based upon what it is worth in USD. Having money in the bank is like a contract. The Iraqi citizen deposits IQD worth 500 bucks...
and after the event... his account will hold IQD worth 500 bucks... just like his car loan before was a liability for 500 bucks.... afterward his debt is worth 500 bucks.
-That is what the Law of Indebtedness is all about.. and Tlar's explanation make sense to those who choose to understand what he is saying.... Time will tell what happens.
-to reiterate.... if the car was worth 500 USD before... it is worth 500 USD after.. and the only thing that will change is the rate of the physical IQD... so now the car is worth 500 IQD as well.. instead of 50,000 IQD like it was yesterday
Same with the bank account.... if it is worth 500 USD today... it will be worth 500 USD tomorrow.. despite the change in paper notes that people hold.
It is so basic... easy to understand... NOT a lop.... the bank account is another contract covered under the Law of Indebtedness.. and it is an interesting theory that makes perfect sense.-
Those who are choosing to mistate it.. misunderstand it... mis-describe it.. well.. you can't fix stubborn or obstinate...
Here is another truism.... which can be called silly by anyone who chooses to excercise no depth of understanding.
Everything is a choice. Not choosing is a choice.
Choosing to be obstinate and contrary for the sake of being contrary is a choice.
Choosing to attempt to upset others is a choice. Everything is a choice.
Weatherford Tx.: Blue what Tlar is decsribing is a LOP/Redenomination within the Iraqi banking system ! Period ! If an Iraqi has 1000 dinar credited to his bank account and ....1000 dinar in his pocket
And then one morning that Iraqi wakes up and they only have 1 dinar credited to their bank account and that 1000 dinar in their pocket is still 1000 dinar ........ which is exactly what Tlar is saying will happen to all Iraqi bank accounts .......... That is a LOP/Redenomination within the Iraqi banking system. Period !
It is so basic .... easy to understand ...... it's a LOP !
Weatherford Tx.: Folks the senario that Tlar/Blue are trying expalin is like this .....
Today a Iraqi walks into the bank ... deposits 1000 dinar and his bank account is credited with 1000 dinar.
Overnite while that Iraqi is sleeping monetary reform like what Tlar/Blue are trying to explain takes place.
Tomorrow when that Iraqi gos back to the bank he is told his bank account now only has 1 dinar.
The Iraqi then says ...... OK I have another 1000 dinar in my pocket and would like to deposit it.
The Iraqi bank says .... sure no problem. Your account has now been credited with 1000 dinar.
Folks if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ......... there has been a LOP/redenomination within the Iraqi banking system.
just a guy: So does the iraqi now have 1001 dinar in the bank,...OR 2 bucks (dinar in the bank)?
AND if it is just two dinar in the bank, will this also mean that I am holding one thousand dinar in my hand and NOW I to now have just one dinar in my hand????? Because this is a simple LOP! World wide....
(Of course, if it were to come in at 3+ i will have 3 bucks) I dont know why I ask, no one knows for sure....
KJWayne: I don't give two hoots what happens in the Iraqi bank or who has money in them! If you have some there and you think it MIGHT be a LOP coming, GET IT OUT! You have chocies, CHOOSE! All of my dinar is here, in the USA and will be cashed in ,in the USA. Quit all of the back and forth BS and HUG somebody instead. BYE!
Phillyman: KJWayne, No one is asking you to care about what happens to Iraq bank account holders. The issue is does it make sense at all. To me it would be an injustice to encourage people to hold money in a bank but not let them benefit from the RV.
At the same time post RV you then heavily market to those who are now rich from an RV to put their money in the bank. Blue does not want to call it a lop, maybe its a game of semantics but I agree with Weatherford and her clear explanation.
I would love to listen to a debate between Breitling and Tlar on this issue. It makes more sense to me if we believe that some will get shafted out of an appreciation it would be foreign dinar holders that have no interest in the country of Iraq not the citizens who have suffered for decades under a corrupt government.
HandOverFist: You are right, Weatherford. What Tlar and Blue are describing is a LOP/redenomination within the banking system. The zeros are taken off the bank account, but the account holder doesn't lose any purchasing power.
Tlar says this is a one-time, new "experiment" in Iraq that has never been done before. It is being done because this is the only "fair" way to get parity. This is also called the Law of Indebtedness. I understand that.
The question for me is what kind of chaos will it cause when the people holding the cash have a "windfall" and the people with money in the bank don't have a "windfall". That part makes no sense to me. What Iraqi in his right mind would stand for that?
Tlar: Weatherford, see, you caused a fire storm thinking what I have been describing is a lop. Add that to your view maliki is going nowhere and that he will get his third term, and on two different threads, you have managed to raise the level of debate making people think through these situations.
God how I like you. Keep up the good work. I think you are a pleasure to read and who knows maybe you will be proven right and I will be the fool, but for the time being, I stand by my beliefs. tlar
Schiz: "1 dinar credited to their bank account and that 1000 dinar in their pocket is still 1000 dinar"
The bank bit is right, the banks won't rv their clients bank accounts lol, they will get what they had in there before but with the new rate.